Comments on: Are Grappling Moves Useless For Street Self Defense?
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/
Kick-Ass Martial Arts BloggingWed, 21 Jul 2010 09:29:26 +0100http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1hourly1By: Neal Martin
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-323
Neal MartinFri, 04 Sep 2009 19:27:43 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-323Hi Round Belly. I don't wish to get into another slanging match over the whole MMA vs Traditional thing. There has been plenty of that sort of debate already here. I will say however, that the guy you linked to is right about all of what he is saying and he provides some very good incontrovertible arguments against those of the sport fighters. I personally believe that traditional martial arts will once again find favour amongst people again, eventually anyway. People will soon realise the need for a deeper philosophy underlying their training, a sense of depth that sport fighting just does not have. I'm quite frankly tired of sport fighters and their terrible attitude towards everything. There is too much insecurity and immaturity amongst them and I think they all need to grow up and stop pretending tha they know what they are talking about when it comes to martial arts because of them don't. Skimming over a handful of styles is not studying the martial arts. It's a shallow approach that reflects the shallow personalities of the participants. Thanks for your comments.Hi Round Belly. I don't wish to get into another slanging match over the whole MMA vs Traditional thing. There has been plenty of that sort of debate already here. I will say however, that the guy you linked to is right about all of what he is saying and he provides some very good incontrovertible arguments against those of the sport fighters. I personally believe that traditional martial arts will once again find favour amongst people again, eventually anyway. People will soon realise the need for a deeper philosophy underlying their training, a sense of depth that sport fighting just does not have. I'm quite frankly tired of sport fighters and their terrible attitude towards everything. There is too much insecurity and immaturity amongst them and I think they all need to grow up and stop pretending tha they know what they are talking about when it comes to martial arts because of them don't. Skimming over a handful of styles is not studying the martial arts. It's a shallow approach that reflects the shallow personalities of the participants. Thanks for your comments.
]]>By: roundbelly
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-320
roundbellyFri, 04 Sep 2009 08:29:20 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-320Hello there. My name is Round Belly and I have been studying martial arts properly for since June 2000 when I was 14 years old.<br>I get fed up with the tired and quite frankly weak arguments that sportfighters use. " We use alive training" " the UFC proves that this technique doesn't work" etc.<br>The problem with these arguments are when the UFC (or some other MMA or NHB nonsense) fight is taking place, there are probably thousands of other fights going on throughout the world. Yet they make such bold assumptions about fighting in general.<br>This link explains how to counter their arguments:<br><a href="http://www.themartialist.com/bullshidofaq.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.themartialist.com/bullshidofaq.htm</a><br>(btw the link I've provided you is done by a very controversial martial artist and he has routinely out debated many sportfighters claims.)<br>Btw I study kung fu, karate. muay thai, pentjak silat and ju-jitsu. <br>TMA can be used effectively on the street. I should know I've just had to use it recently.Hello there. My name is Round Belly and I have been studying martial arts properly for since June 2000 when I was 14 years old. I get fed up with the tired and quite frankly weak arguments that sportfighters use. ” We use alive training” ” the UFC proves that this technique doesn't work” etc. The problem with these arguments are when the UFC (or some other MMA or NHB nonsense) fight is taking place, there are probably thousands of other fights going on throughout the world. Yet they make such bold assumptions about fighting in general. This link explains how to counter their arguments: http://www.themartialist.com/bullshidofaq.htm (btw the link I've provided you is done by a very controversial martial artist and he has routinely out debated many sportfighters claims.) Btw I study kung fu, karate. muay thai, pentjak silat and ju-jitsu. TMA can be used effectively on the street. I should know I've just had to use it recently.
]]>By: kintanon
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-246
kintanonWed, 05 Aug 2009 00:20:33 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-246I'm not in the least being arrogant about it.<br>It's not about me proving myself, it's about giving people who hold a belief the chance to test that belief in a safe environment first before they are forced to test it in an unsafe one. Let me break it down for you.<br><br>If you believe that you can fly and I say, "Well, if you can fly why not hop off that 5 foot ledge and fly around?" and you tell me, "No, my flying is only for emergencies." and then your plane crashes, and you leap out of the plane and suddenly discover that you can not actually fly would you not regret your decision not to test your ability in a safer environment?<br><br>People like you are training kids to believe that without ever actually trying to overcome another human being with their skills they will be able to do so. <br>If you believe you can rely on groin strikes and eye gouges to take care of yourself in a fight but haven't ever actually attempted to eye gouge a person who is actively resisting you then you are setting yourself up for failure.<br>You must train in an alive manner in order to actually be learning self defense. Compliant drills, Kata, non-contact sparring, point sparring, none of these build actual fighting ability. They may have their place within the overall training context, but if the essential aliveness element, the element of pressure testing your techniques against a resisting opponent, is missing then they are all useless.<br><br>Train Alive or You Might As Well Be Dancing.I'm not in the least being arrogant about it. It's not about me proving myself, it's about giving people who hold a belief the chance to test that belief in a safe environment first before they are forced to test it in an unsafe one. Let me break it down for you.
If you believe that you can fly and I say, “Well, if you can fly why not hop off that 5 foot ledge and fly around?” and you tell me, “No, my flying is only for emergencies.” and then your plane crashes, and you leap out of the plane and suddenly discover that you can not actually fly would you not regret your decision not to test your ability in a safer environment?
People like you are training kids to believe that without ever actually trying to overcome another human being with their skills they will be able to do so. If you believe you can rely on groin strikes and eye gouges to take care of yourself in a fight but haven't ever actually attempted to eye gouge a person who is actively resisting you then you are setting yourself up for failure. You must train in an alive manner in order to actually be learning self defense. Compliant drills, Kata, non-contact sparring, point sparring, none of these build actual fighting ability. They may have their place within the overall training context, but if the essential aliveness element, the element of pressure testing your techniques against a resisting opponent, is missing then they are all useless.
Train Alive or You Might As Well Be Dancing.
]]>By: Urban_Samurai
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-231
Urban_SamuraiTue, 04 Aug 2009 23:52:56 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-231Dude, let me just borrow Wim's words for a second and state that this is my house you're in and I won't tolerate this kind of slanging match. You can make your point without being arrogant about it, which you have consistently done. And what is with that last comment? You are just backing up everything I've been saying about MMA and it's thuggish attitude and superiority complex. Your so desperate to prove yourself, then go do so, just don't do it here. Bye.Dude, let me just borrow Wim's words for a second and state that this is my house you're in and I won't tolerate this kind of slanging match. You can make your point without being arrogant about it, which you have consistently done. And what is with that last comment? You are just backing up everything I've been saying about MMA and it's thuggish attitude and superiority complex. Your so desperate to prove yourself, then go do so, just don't do it here. Bye.
]]>By: Urban_Samurai
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-229
Urban_SamuraiTue, 04 Aug 2009 22:53:07 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-229Every situation is different, which is why we have so many variations on technique and positions. You do what is best at the time. You would obviously handle things your way and I mine. That doesn't make either of us wrong.<br><br>This is obviously going no where because we both have different opinions so may I suggest you read an article that will hopefully put some perspective on the matter? Here's the link. Read it. It covers a lot of what we have been discussing.<br><br><a href="http://www.wimsblog.com/2009/08/mma-sucks-traditional-martial-arts-suck-more/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wimsblog.com/2009/08/mma-sucks-tradi...</a>Every situation is different, which is why we have so many variations on technique and positions. You do what is best at the time. You would obviously handle things your way and I mine. That doesn't make either of us wrong.
This is obviously going no where because we both have different opinions so may I suggest you read an article that will hopefully put some perspective on the matter? Here's the link. Read it. It covers a lot of what we have been discussing.
]]>By: kintanon
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-228
kintanonTue, 04 Aug 2009 22:12:18 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-228You're creating another false comparison. If you have a standing choke applied to someone it is equally possible for a partner of theirs to approach you from behind and strike you.<br>If you are applying the choke on the ground you have actually reduced the number of ways someone can approach you and all of them are within an easy line of sight.<br>You also are continually making the assumption that grappling involves "lying on the ground". If you have back-mount on someone you are not lying on the ground. You have full mobility to escape, you have that opponent pinned and neutralized and you can see around you just fine. You can also apply chokes, strikes, etc... to the pinned opponent at will without facing any possible retaliation. And against someone who is not a trained grappler anyone with a couple of years of BJJ should easily be able to get their back, flatten them, and achieve a solid backmount within seconds.You're creating another false comparison. If you have a standing choke applied to someone it is equally possible for a partner of theirs to approach you from behind and strike you. If you are applying the choke on the ground you have actually reduced the number of ways someone can approach you and all of them are within an easy line of sight. You also are continually making the assumption that grappling involves “lying on the ground”. If you have back-mount on someone you are not lying on the ground. You have full mobility to escape, you have that opponent pinned and neutralized and you can see around you just fine. You can also apply chokes, strikes, etc… to the pinned opponent at will without facing any possible retaliation. And against someone who is not a trained grappler anyone with a couple of years of BJJ should easily be able to get their back, flatten them, and achieve a solid backmount within seconds.
]]>By: Urban_Samurai
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-227
Urban_SamuraiTue, 04 Aug 2009 21:40:55 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-227The type of grappling you are talking about I do all the time in sparring and sport jujitsu. I know full well how to handle someone from this position and execute takedowns etc. It's a large part of what I do in my style of Jujitsu and always has been. The classes I take I mostly work on grappling on the ground, the more technical aspects of BJJ.<br><br>I stated in the article that grappling has its uses for street self defense but being a stand up fighter (mostly) I'd prefer to handle things from that position. Chokes and locks can be applied without you having to go to the ground with them. I'll also not take the chance that someone else is going to come along and kick me in the head while I'm on the ground as I've seen happen many times. No one seems to fight one on one anymore.<br><br>I don't agree with your assertion that most of the disarm techniques in martial arts are useless. Most of them will work, as long as your good enough and confident enough to use them. I know people who have used them against knives, and yes they got cut but they still disarmed the attacker. You always have to expect getting cut when dealing with blades anyway. And you're right, it's not a good idea to face someone with a weapon.<br><br>We have a difference of opinion, my friend and I doubt we'll ever agree on these issues. A different perspective is always welcome here however.The type of grappling you are talking about I do all the time in sparring and sport jujitsu. I know full well how to handle someone from this position and execute takedowns etc. It's a large part of what I do in my style of Jujitsu and always has been. The classes I take I mostly work on grappling on the ground, the more technical aspects of BJJ.
I stated in the article that grappling has its uses for street self defense but being a stand up fighter (mostly) I'd prefer to handle things from that position. Chokes and locks can be applied without you having to go to the ground with them. I'll also not take the chance that someone else is going to come along and kick me in the head while I'm on the ground as I've seen happen many times. No one seems to fight one on one anymore.
I don't agree with your assertion that most of the disarm techniques in martial arts are useless. Most of them will work, as long as your good enough and confident enough to use them. I know people who have used them against knives, and yes they got cut but they still disarmed the attacker. You always have to expect getting cut when dealing with blades anyway. And you're right, it's not a good idea to face someone with a weapon.
We have a difference of opinion, my friend and I doubt we'll ever agree on these issues. A different perspective is always welcome here however.
]]>By: Urban_Samurai
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-103
Urban_SamuraiTue, 07 Jul 2009 12:17:15 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-103Thanks for the info BK. I'm not sure were this myth that all fights go to the ground came from. I think it was a prevalent view even before the Gracies came along. Some fights do end up as wrestling matches but only a small percentage and certainly not all. I also think it may suit grapplers to keep this myth alive. It's a good selling point for their art.Thanks for the info BK. I'm not sure were this myth that all fights go to the ground came from. I think it was a prevalent view even before the Gracies came along. Some fights do end up as wrestling matches but only a small percentage and certainly not all. I also think it may suit grapplers to keep this myth alive. It's a good selling point for their art.
]]>By: BK
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-102
BKTue, 07 Jul 2009 03:28:19 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-102<a href="http://ejmas.com/jnc/2007jnc/jncart_Leblanc_0701.html" rel="nofollow">http://ejmas.com/jnc/2007jnc/jncart_Leblanc_070...</a><br><br>This link provides insight into the "90% of all fights go to the ground" argument. Based on law enforcement experience from the 80s. If you look at the numbers, it really works out to about 40% or less of all fights go to the ground and that's even if you're a cop and you need to subdue a suspect.http://ejmas.com/jnc/2007jnc/jncart_Leblanc_070...
This link provides insight into the “90% of all fights go to the ground” argument. Based on law enforcement experience from the 80s. If you look at the numbers, it really works out to about 40% or less of all fights go to the ground and that's even if you're a cop and you need to subdue a suspect.
]]>By: Jesse
http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-self-defense/are-grappling-moves-useless-for-street-self-defense/comment-page-1/#comment-100
JesseMon, 06 Jul 2009 21:32:18 +0000http://urbansamurai.org.uk/?p=201#comment-100hi i have a related blog and i would like to exchange links. my email is <a href="mailto:swinuyasha@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">swinuyasha@gmail.com</a> let me know as soon as possible.hi i have a related blog and i would like to exchange links. my email is swinuyasha@gmail.com let me know as soon as possible.
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